Anybody using data acquisition system?

[Dave_E71]

We're thinking about getting one and I'm not really sure how much we need. With prices ranging from $700 to $5000 there isn't one that jumps out and says buy me, buy me.

The way I look at it I think I would need
2 cylinder head temps
1 pipe position (for pros)
rpm
speed (gps or paddle wheel?)

track mapping (accelerometers or gps?)

I don't feel a throttle position sensor is important because you're either wide open or fully closed

Any thoughts or input as to which systems people are using would be helpful

Thanks
Dave

[Andrew 4CE]

I've been using one for about 4 years. Love it. It's a small unit, adapted from go-karts. records speed, laptime and rpm for the duration of the race. THen I download it to my laptop. Allows me to enter all the other data I might want to like motors, props, plugs, wind, water contions, etc. Can also overlay one lap to a next. Cost me about $500 plus a laptop. I believe it's helped me get the most out of the equipment I have. It is expandable to add g forces, cylinder temp, exhaust temp, etc. but people who made it went under. I'm sure someone with a little more knowledge than I about computers could make the sensors.

Andrew

[Andrew 4CE]

To add...

I use a paddle wheel for speed

A wire wraped on the spark plug wire for rpm

push button for lap timing

[BROCCOLI]

David,
Contact Edunne. He has something along these lines in development.
Craig

[Andy111]

I use a Micron3 in the kart. It has a tach,head temp and transponder. It tells you: current RPM, lap times, fastest lap, high tach reading and lets you know your RPM all the way through each lap. They cost around $300.

[Andrew 4CE]

I believe MyChrons do not actually record though right? Atleast the version 2 did not. And high rpm does not do much good in a boat with jumps out of the water and planing off, etc... They are a nice unit though!! To bad our sport wasn't big enough to get companies to make nice little units like these a little more suited to boats.

[Andy111]

It does record up to 50 laps. It also tells you your RPM all the way through each and every lap so you can see how your RPM's rise and fall at different parts of the course.

Mychron (http://www.aargear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=59)

[Andy111]

I use a Micron3 in the kart. It has a tach,head temp and transponder. It tells you: current RPM, lap times, fastest lap, high tach reading and lets you know your RPM all the way through each lap. They cost around $300.

[Andrew 4CE]

Very cool... Wow they just keep making that little unit better and better!

Can you manually trigger the laps? I don't think a beacon would work in a hydro/runabout unless you passed pretty close to a dock. Plus with bouncing and stuff you might be out of the field of view for the beacon at the moment you pass.

[Andrew 4CE]

Factory link to MyChron:

http://www.aim-sportline.com/

This company has really grown it's product line since I last looked at them a few years ago.

[Dave_E71]

I'm looking at the DL 90 which combines GPS and accelerometers, reasonable base price at $780. One drawback is that it only has 2 analog inputs and one digital.

http://www.d2engineering.com/public_html/d2engineering%20products.htm

http://www.race-technology.com/WebPage/Products/Logger/DL90Home.html


Thanks Craig

[Andrew 4CE]

Yeah, that was where I went wrong when researching and buying one. I decided I needed to have a dash. Something I could see. Now that I've been using it a while I realize a black box is all that was needed. I never look at it on the water anyway.

Using just a black box opens up many other vendors too.

2 inputs... well with speed taken care of from gps, tach could be digital, I would think both temps would be anologue? Then what is there? Throttle postion and pipe? I don't know if potentiometers are digital or anologue... if you can get digital then you should be ok I'd think.

btw... at less that $1000 with the gps unit, multi axis acceleraometer, external trigger, and recording that much sampling, I think that's a smoking deal.

[Dave_E71]

I was thinking that a dash would be "cool" too but then I thought that it might not like being submerged :rolleyes: and I definately wouldn't like paying to get it fixed...

digital is only off or on (0 or 1 to you computer geeks)

I'm not sure but I think potentiometers are analog where it's measuring a change in voltage.

So, 2 analog could be 2 CHT (are both necessary?) or one CHT and pipe position.

If you're measuring both head temps the digital could be used with a switch which is tripped when the pipes are all the way up

I'll know more later, I'm going to call the guys at D2Engineering this evening

Dave

[Dave_E71]

I just spoke to the guys at D2Engineering and it looks like this may be just the ticket, the only part we're unsure of is the senders for the cylinder head temp, they measure water temps. They're geared more towards automotive rather than kart/boat applications. The person I spoke with is looking for an alternative method do do this, in particular using a digitron type sender (between the plug and the head). I'll keep you all posted

Dave

[modifiedoutboard]

you may want to look at Land and Sea they have a web site,
and offer data accustition for karts and cars.
one desireable feature that they offer is a wireless rotary strain gauge that is installed inline with the drive shaft and records engine torque while on the course. it could be used to tune an engine and evaluate pipes and props on the course.

[Dave_E71]

Thanks Anthony,

I looked at these guys but the costs were higher than I'm willing go.

http://www.land-and-sea.com/

Dave

[dwestby]

Dave we are using Digatron on our hydro and runabout. ther are alot of pro guy running their systems also contact doug carothers 509-467-3128 or check their web at www.digarton.cc hope this will help you and say you had contact with spokane propeller @dock and you should get a discount or wmail me. dennis westby the spud.

[pro350hydro]

I've been running Digatron equipment for years and never had a problem with it. I like it, simple to use, and they are good to deal with. Hit em up like spud said. Tell em team Spokane sent ya.....LOL


Mike
R-15

[Dave_E71]

I'm looking at DL90 for several reasons, it stores the data and allows me to look at it on a computer, uses a combination of gps and accelerometers to calculate speed and for track mapping, the cost of this unit is much less than others I've seen which use a GPS. The down sides are, there is no display in the boat and you have to download the data to your computer and that it only has provisions for two analog and one digital input. It uses GPS and a longitudional accelerometer to calculate speed and the GPS with a lateral accelerometer is used for track mapping. I feel the greatest benefit would be in using the track mapping with prop testing, this will allow you to not only see top speed but also how long it takes to get there.

Dave

STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I have no connection with any of these folks except for my wallet to their hand...

[Andrew 4CE]

Hey Dave, I"m excited for ya!! haha. I remember doing all the research/shopping for my unit. Amazing some of the stuff that is out there for people with unlimited budgets eh!! Then weeding through all the stuff that us normal people can get... lol.

To get accelleration you only need speed and time. Most any unit will give you this info in a graph. Track mapping is not needed for it. With your accelerometer and gps though, track mapping would be very handy for seeing which fin setup holds best in a corner while giving you the highest exit speed. This in my mind is the most valuable tool to a data aquisition system. I wanted it very much. Lots of people are in the same top speed area... but getting around the corners fastest makes a huge difference. Too bad Kart Data System went under and we never got that far with my unit :(

One tip for you... Almost all data aquisition units are feeding similar info to the black box... what is very important is the software that comes with it and how easily you can inturpret the mass of numbers you have after a heat. You can rig up almost anyones sensor to work with any DA unit... but you are stuck with the software for your particular unit forever.

[Andrew 4CE]

Oh one more thing Dave... Many people are moving from speedos to GPS units because of easy of use, multi function ability and perceaved accuracy, they give number to one decimal place! But! Depending on the race courses you are running on, GPS is not very good. Many of us are racing on rivers... rivers have current. Say the river is moving even a low 2 mph. A gps unit does nothing to account for this... down current your speeds are high by 2 mph, up river your speeds are slow by 2 mph. If you are on the same water all the time this does not matter, but trying to compare different times of the year on the same water or different race sites, even if surveyed make this imposible.

But for easy of hookup and other features you gain... well you have to weigh the pro's and cons for what is best for you.

None of this matters to karts or cars... it's unique to boats.

[Dave_E71]

Andrew,

You can download the software from
http://www.race-technology.com/WebPage/Products/Logger/DL90Download/DL90Download.html

There are a couple of files included so that you can try the different modes, I installed it last night and like many things it takes a while to seperate the useful from the "gee wiz" :confused:

I agree with you about the gps, but where it excels is in repeatability and it will also tell you how setup A performs relative to setup B. You will find out about how fast you're really going in the first heat :D

Dave

[Dave_E71]

ok I've taken the plunge

I ordered a data recorder from Race-Technology ( http://www.race-technology.com) today. Since I started this thread they have released a new model, the DL1 http://www.race-technology.com/WebPage2/Products/DL1/DL1Home.html

I ordered directly from the factory and the total price shipped was $922.50, the DL90 would be about $742.60.

As shipped the unit will record speed, rpm, G's and it also does course mapping. I'm working with some guys here (hey, NASA is good for something and NO I'm not getting the parts or fabricating anything at work ) to design a piece that will add CHT to the data stream and once my wallet recovers I'll order the linear potientiometer to add pipe position to the mix

If you have any questions email me, I should have it working for Camden

Dave

Image from manufacturers website

[Andrew 4CE]

Dave does it get the speed from the GPS or from the 4 wheel speed sensors? If it's from the wheel speed sensors what sensor are you going to replace them with to get speeD?

VERY nice unit!!! Hope to see it in person some time.

Love the CF card ram... but you'll have to put it in a waterproof box or something eh?

Andrew

[Dave_E71]

It uses the GPS for speed and uses the accelerometers to interpolate between the GPS readings.

I'll probably go with these folks for the waterproof box http://www.otterbox.com/product.cfm?product=136&code=NA

Dave