The high cost of the Annual Meeting

[Gordie Miller]

I went to the annual meeting today with the intention of attending a couple commision meetings. Upon finding the price to park being almost $30.00 for the day, the cost of attending only the meetings being $50.00, plus the high cost of everything else at the Hyatt in downtown Milwaukee I decided to forgo the meeting in lieu of buying diapers for my daughter. Does anyone else think maybe we should consider holding these meetings at a location a little less costly than these high dollar hotels in mega $ markets(the last three being St. Louis, Adam's mark hotel, Detroit, can't remember but expensive, and Milwaukee, Hyatt hotel). Maybe if we lowered the cost of attending thesse meetings more of the RACERS could/would attend instead of just the regular politicos who run our organization. What do you guys think?

[jsilvestri]

Cost is always an issue, and a concern when deciding to anything. But, the costs you listed does seem pretty high to me. I would have done the same thing. Holding the meeting at a location that was more cost efficent would be a good thing, as long as the professionalism of the meeting wasn't lost.

[speak]

I think you are to it. We have our USTS mtgs at a Raddison in Chicago and not all that expensive. Also HI/ and other places would be most appropriate. Think about it in terms of Congress, when it "ain't your money, it spends real easy."

[Greg Jacobsen]

Gordie,

You are making the right decision - "Diapers over the Annual Meeting". I stayed home in part because My son had a basketball practice and game, which I coach. An my daughter had two games. That is one of the real issues today in Boatracing - kids have so many options and the parents, if they are involved - attend or support most of that. Time today is soooo valuable. Keep up the good work with your daughter!!

Jake

[modhydro]

I could not agree more. In my opinion it has turned into more of a social event than a business meeting. This may be all well and good for the big money guys, but for most of us it is simply too expensive. To me the biggest travesty is being denied the right to vote at OUR meeting as spelled out in the APBA rulebook. I brought it up at the general business meeting in Detroit last year and had people look at me like I had two heads. After the blow-off response I got and general feeling, I doubt I will ever attend another one. The national meeting happens (this is where it gets hard to understand!) every year and should be budgeted for from the APBA fund. We should not have to foot the bill for it in order to attend and vote. I wonder just how much APBA and the sponsoring club make for putting it on???? I'd like to see a detailed accounting for it. I bet we would all s**t our pants if we saw the real numbers. Who gets rooms comped and all?

Just more thoughts from a disgruntled racer. I'll spend my money racing, not supporting politics and politicians! Its a shame they can't buy my vote any more.

Steve Roskowski 15-H

[Grin&Barrett]

Originally posted by modhydro
I could not agree more. In my opinion it has turned into more of a social event than a business meeting. This may be all well and good for the big money guys, but for most of us it is simply too expensive. To me the biggest travesty is being denied the right to vote at OUR meeting as spelled out in the APBA rulebook. I brought it up at the general business meeting in Detroit last year and had people look at me like I had two heads. After the blow-off response I got and general feeling, I doubt I will ever attend another one. The national meeting happens (this is where it gets hard to understand!) every year and should be budgeted for from the APBA fund. We should not have to foot the bill for it in order to attend and vote. I wonder just how much APBA and the sponsoring club make for putting it on???? I'd like to see a detailed accounting for it. I bet we would all s**t our pants if we saw the real numbers. Who gets rooms comped and all?

Just more thoughts from a disgruntled racer. I'll spend my money racing, not supporting politics and politicians! Its a shame they can't buy my vote any more.

Steve Roskowski 15-H


1st: Gordie, I understand your concern at the cost, If you would have let me know I would have picked you up some where and we could have slit the $12.50 it cost me to park all day at the hotel parking garage.

2nd: Most budget hotels don't have the means or meeting rooms that the "business chains" do to hold these events.

3rd: Steve,what voting rights did members lose, last year at Detriot we had what was a mess. I can assure you that you haven't lost anything, and actually the Judge in NY made it abundantly clear that the way business was done in the past can't happen again. The BOD truly answers to the membership not the other way around. There are more meetings and seminars than just the annual membership and BOD meetings.

4th: Each Region that holds the meeting receives some money from APBA, which doesn't have alot of money right now as explained at the meeting to the members present, but must offset costs for the meetings and hopefully can get enough sponsorship and donations to break even. If the Region can make a profit then they have some money to help that Region.

5th: If you think you can do a better job at putting on the Annual meeting please let your Region chairman know you would like it in your region and you want to be in charge of planning it.

Just my $.02

Matthew Barrett
APBA Member 10461
Region 7

[Ron Hill]

When I hear the post office is supposed to make a profit, I often ask myself, self, what do I get for MY tax money???? Seems to me we get National Defense, but ......they can't protect our borders......

Some of these questions enter my mind when I join APBA. AS a kid, on the back of my APBA CARD, it said, "Pit Pass". This pass WAS honored at all APBA events. Now, as an APBA Member, if I go to see the Unlimiteds, or... I have to pay. I don't mind paying for my family or friends... But what does my memebership get me?

I'll be the first to admit, that I blamed National Meeting's "Entry Fee" on CPA's in APBA. (Which could be true). Seems to me, if a member goes to a National Meeting, Hall of Champions, and the Banquet should cost money....but a Member attending should be free.

My brother coined the word Annual Binge for the Annual Meeting. Many have gone to these meeting as an annual party. Until the Hall of Champions was incorporated with the meeting, very few "RACERS" went to the Annual Meeting..

There has been more discussion on the net, in the last six months, RE RULES, than the last five years of National Meetings. As amamber organization, the members have to let their leaders kow their desires. Charging members to attend meeting seems crazy to me.

The next question could be: How do you FUND a National Meeting? I did it by selling T Shirts, getting money from Benihana, Budweiser, OMC and Mercury. I know times have changed.

[Tomtall]

What if each region was responsable for sending and paying for the counsel members exspenses? For example: Region 6, Stock outboard division would have the season to raise funds for their catagory counsel members to attend the national meeting all expenses payed. Why should the counsel members who don't get payed anyway for their positiones have to pay out of their pocket to help run our classes. Shouldn't it be a group effort on everyone associated with that catagory to support them thru their APBA membership? I do not believe any member should have to pay to sit in on these catagory meetings. How much does a chair cost? Fill me in if I'm going in the wrong direction here. :confused:

[Gordie Miller]

is the meeting rooms have, from my personal experience, the capacity to hold roughly 200 members for each category meeting. Only about 25 people ever attend the OPC commision meeting from my experience. Seems like we could cut the size of the room we rent for that one anyway and I suspect the other categories are similar. That would cut the cost of the room rental anyway. Seems like a logical place to start to me. I'm confident there are other places we could cut expenses to make this a meeting of RACERS again rather than a social event for the politicos it seems to have become. Just one racers opinion and I may be wrong. Give me your thoughts.

[17W]

Gordie don't you think that the meeting should have been @ the Brat Stop. I do!

Brent 17W:D

[Ron Hill]

On another thread (Here on Hydro, under some Stock Outboard History), I think I pointed out that at the 1968 Annual Meeting, 250 people or more at the Saturday night Banquet, when the National Champions for the year were announced and asked to stand, I was the only one standing after the names were read.

In those days, you went into politics after your racing days were done...No way am I saying this is right...but in the "Good Old Days" more people discussed how many HOT DOGS were sold at a race, than was talked about rules.

Tall Tom has a good idea, but vistiors to meeting should be WELCOMED, not charged. Regions SHOULD send people. Bill and Kay Boyes have used many a "BUDDY PASS" to get people to National Meetings. My wife and I flew to Detroit on their PASSES (Round trip CA to Detroit for two $150)...I'm not the only one to use their passes...

Smaller rooms may not be cheaper, it could be part of the package.

Let's face it, Region 7 had the "Cajonnies" to put the meeting on. With everything that went down at APBA this year, lucky their was a meeting.

Now is the time to work toward next year....Maybe Region 12 could put one on in three years... in VEGAS again... We had a SNAKE DANCE (LIVE SNAKE) and free drinks for all at the banquet....no fees except for the dinner. (1979)....

[Grin&Barrett]

Gordie,

The meeting was in your region, did you volunteer for anything or try to get sponsorship to help offset the cost or make these suggestions at the planing meetings or at least let your feelings be known to Dee before now?


Everyone else,

I understand that some of you don't agree with paying to goto the meetings but tell me this if the meetings themselves were included in your memberships how many of you would still not go? If you are going to complain and then you won't come any way what does it matter to you.

If you can't go to the annual meetings then at least let your region reprentative know what you would like to see changed before hand so they can possibly do something about it, if they don't make sure you run against them next time so you can bring them up yourselves.


Matt

[Ron Hill]

On another thread (Here on Hydro, under some Stock Outboard History), I think I pointed out that at the 1968 Annual Meeting, 250 people or more at the Saturday night Banquet, when the National Champions for the year were announced and asked to stand, I was the only one standing after the names were read.

In those days, you went into politics after your racing days were done...No way am I saying this is right...but in the "Good Old Days" more people discussed how many HOT DOGS were sold at a race, than was talked about rules.

Tall Tom has a good idea, but vistiors to meeting should be WELCOMED, not charged. Regions SHOULD send people. Bill and Kay Boyes have used many a "BUDDY PASS" to get people to National Meetings. My wife and I flew to Detroit on their PASSES (Round trip CA to Detroit for two $150)...I'm not the only one to use their passes...

Smaller rooms may not be cheaper, it could be part of the package.

Let's face it, Region 7 had the "Cajonnies" to put the meeting on. With everything that went down at APBA this year, lucky their was a meeting.

Now is the time to work toward next year....Maybe Region 12 could put one on in three years... in VEGAS again... We had a SNAKE DANCE (LIVE SNAKE) and free drinks for all at the banquet....no fees except for the dinner. (1979)....

[Bill Huson]

Wow, what a cool idea! Region 4 has been doing that since whenever, long before I got involved in racing. Every year a check is issued to various reprsentatives, such as the Region Chairperson and commisioners in various catagories to help with expenses for the meeting.

This is done at our meetings where all catagories attend: inboard, outboard, OPC, and whatever else is getting wet in our region.

[BP125V]

Come on Gordie! Your dad has spent his entire life working for this organization, you should know a bit about how things work, even if just by osmosis.

You need a facility that can handle a whole bunch of category meetings at once. One that can handle several large banquets in one day, ie today for the Hall of Champions ceremony (which was very nice by the way, thanks Fred!) and tonight's annual banquet. Need a "hospitality room" so people can get their free continental breakfast and get free beer, snacks and ice cream at night. The place has to be some where close to an airport, close to other things to do for those not tied up in meetings all day. I ca
n go on forever but won't.

Don't know who all got comp rooms but I bet there were'nt many. Why do I say that? Because there were'nt many people who helped put this on!!!!!!!!!!! Dee Berghauer and his family busted their butts on this. So did the Allens, the Hoffmans, and Steve Warnock. Sorry if I forgot anyone, I'll get a complete list in a future Region 7 update.

Thanks Ron Hill for noticing that it took alot to pull this off. Because of all of the JUNK that happened last year there was not a whole lot of time to do this and not a lot of outside support either.

If a region or a club wants to help defray the cost to send their people they certainly can, I know that some are able to do this. Pursue this with your region and/or club.

I don't like the fact that we have to pay to go to the meetings either, but it costs big money to rent enough space.

SOCIAL EVENT?!? POLITICIANS!?! Where? I'm on the SORC and every person on that FRIGGIN' commission RACES!!!!!!!!! MOST of those on the SORC were in meetings from 7 am to 4:30 pm. The SORC met from 9:30 to 4:30 Thur. and Fri and 9 to 11:30 on Sat. After that they spent time over dinner and the rest of the evening discussing items on the agenda. I did, and I was talking to people on the SORC about these issues.

Spending other people's money? NO ONE ELSE VOLUNTEERED TO PUT ON THE MEETING, SO REGION 7 DID. THE PEOPLE WHO DID MOST OF THE WORK LIVE IN OR NEAR MILWAUKEE, SO WHERE DO YOU THINK THE MEETING WAS GOING TO BE? Due to the fact that it was in Milwaukee where we saw daytime temps of -5 degrees, it has to be at a place that is decent and big enough. Plus the event has to be nice enough for people to enjoy being there.

I'm going to end this now, but have to honestly say that I just cannot believe some of the stuff I read on here. With how long most of us have been in this sport and with the communication and information available to us today, I am just shocked at the mis-information that still gets floated around.

Bill Pavlick III

[BP125V]

Need to clarrify....

The free beer, snacks, breakfast, ice cream etc were'nt really FREE. They were free to those eating, but not to the individual clubs who DONATED their time and money to make them free. For instance, Dee spent a ton of time hitting up companies for donations. BSOA bought the breakfast stuff with their money. MRC bought the ice cream, bowls, spoons, napkins, dry ice, and toppings with their own money. And then had two unpaid but very highly qualified volunteers dish out the ice cream. Goody bags were provided to everyone free of charge, Dee got those donated as well.

Please, let's stop with the conspiracy theories.

Bill Pavlick III

PS If you can't attend the meeting, give your commissioner a well thought out and typed proposal, it will be presented and voted on.

[Ron Hill]

Bill,

Good post... I feel, that Gordie was trying to bring out a point that change is needed. Did HE do anything? Maybe not... BUT he's making suggestions for the future..

I'm a futurist, even though I have a HISTORY in STOCK RACING..

Gordie is throwing ideas on the plate...(TABLE)...Let's look at them!!!

Someone get me the name of the Honda Outboard Rep, please. My brother's son-in-law owns two Honda Dealership in CA...I'd like to talk to this person...

ADD:

Gordie is throwing out his opinion...He's well aware of what Fred has done for APBA and SO AM I...

Wish I was there... Wife has me painting a picket fence.. I'm not "Hen Pecked" am I honey???

[Gordie Miller]

I was merely lamenting a couple points, #1, if I arrive before 9 a.m., I could park for $12.00 for the whole day. Unfortunately I arrived at about 11 a.m., which means I was on the $3.00/hr. program, If I stayed through dinner, you do the math-$30.00. Hey Bill, can I borrow $60.00? I wanted to attend Thursday and Friday. #2, I just want to attend the meetings, no luncheons, no dinners, no banquets, no FREE BEER and other various FREE stuff. I just wanted to listen to our illustrious politicos debate the issues of the day. For the priviledge of sitting quietly(alright, maybe not quietly)in the room I had to pay $50.00. Yes Bill, I understand it costs money to get these hotels in the major metro areas. I just want to participate in the process, unfortunately this year I got priced out. Oh well, better luck to me next year. Sorry if I offended you Bill, I'll try harder next time to not ask legitimate questions for open discussion. Or could I do that if I paid $110.00 here too? Should I send the $ directly to you Bill or send it to HQ?

[Haüenstein]

I was merely lamenting a couple points, #1, if I arrive before 9 a.m., I could park for $12.00 for the whole day. Unfortunately I arrived at about 11 a.m., which means I was on the $3.00/hr. program, If I stayed through dinner, you do the math-$30.00. Hey Bill, can I borrow $60.00? I wanted to attend Thursday and Friday. #2, I just want to attend the meetings, no luncheons, no dinners, no banquets, no FREE BEER and other various FREE stuff. I just wanted to listen to our illustrious politicos debate the issues of the day. For the priviledge of sitting quietly(alright, maybe not quietly)in the room I had to pay $50.00. Yes Bill, I understand it costs money to get these hotels in the major metro areas. I just want to participate in the process, unfortunately this year I got priced out. Oh well, better luck to me next year. Sorry if I offended you Bill, I'll try harder next time to not ask legitimate questions for open discussion. Or could I do that if I paid $110.00 here too? Should I send the $ directly to you Bill or send it to HQ?

Unbelievable.

[modhydro]

This is just a guess, but I'm sure that there will be a national meeting next year. The question I was trying to raise in the earlier post is why do the attendees have to pay for the meeting???? This is an event that happens every year. In my opinion, the meeting should be covered by our APBA annual membership as it benefits and is necessary for every member of the organization, not just the people who make personal sacrifice to be there. There is a lot of talk about small numbers at the meeting. To me it is a slap in the face to be charged a fee to be a volunteer participant in the meetings. It is enough that we have to take time off of work and incur travel expenses, but then to be charged for the right to vote????
The rulebook states that every member in good standing is entitled to one vote at the meeting. I've never read where we have to pay an additional meeting fee for that right.
I realize that it costs money to put on such an event and our club contributed towards that end, but I also feel that the whole situation needs a review to see how it can be improved. I know that APBA decides how much the hosting region/club makes. I'd personally like to see a full disclosure of how much APBA takes away from the meeting compared to the actual clubs whose workers efforts made the whole thing even possible. Another opinion of mine is that this shouldn't make money, but just be what it meant to be: the national annual business meeting.

Steve Roskowksi 15-H

[Gordie Miller]

Mr. Hauenstein apparently doesn't comprehend any of my questions/opinions as he terms it/them unbelievable, I'm glad not everybody is not as closed minded as he is. I only brought up what I thought were some legitimate questions and it has now turned into a bunch of name calling and fingerpointing. That was NOT the point of this post but I can point back just as easily. This was NOT intended to be anything more than seeking a few answers to some questions, I realize it costs a lot of $ to host these events, that's the whole point, is there any way to lower the overall cost through geographic location or otherwise to entice more members/racers to attend. For pete's sake this is an organization that has been in membership decline for decades, for Bill and Mr H. to come out and attack me for pointing out what I feel are legitmate questions is ridiculous. Is it possible that type of attitude is part of the problem here? Remember YOU guys started this. Respectfully yours

[Haüenstein]

Gordie, I understand your issues and realize how tough this is for everyone. I consider your attitude and the lack of respect you're showing unbelievable. Your response has given me no reason to change my mind on that. Hopefully we can find a way to make the national meeting more accessible. I don't think being a jerk is the way to do it.

[Gordie Miller]

I didn't point fingers at anybody. I merely brought up a few points, nice to see Ron Hill come to my defense, thanks Ron. As he said, "let's not jump on Gordie". A few people took a swipe or two at me for expressing an opinion and asking a few questions. That is when I fought back, I like a good scrap/debate every now and again. Keeps the juices flowin. Maybe we'll just agree to disagree, but at least this issue is out in the open and being discussed. I like Backus' idea for the Brat Stop. Come on Mr. H, the Brat Stop would be awesome! Now back to the issue, how can we lower the overall cost to participate in the process? These are just my opinions and I may be all wrong but some people on this thread have expressed similar concerns. We deserve the right to some answers not just to be chastised(sp?)and sent home.

[Ron Hill]

Modhydro is on the same page as I. National Meetings (Not parties, dinners, et al) should be free to members. Hell, when I attend these meeting, I set in on all of them...for 5 minutes or so...So I can know what is happening and so I can report back to Region 12....($110 was not a BIG FEE, but to just go to an OPC meeting, it should be free)...

Maybe, with the membership application, nest to the box for Historical Society, there should be a box to check for the Annual Business Meeting...

AS I said, I will start planning a meeting in Vegas... Cheap flights, go meeting area, good weather...but basic philosophy should be FREE MEETINGS.... Wehn Region 12 made a BIG PROFIT on our National meeting, I returned the funds to the clubs at a ratio they had helped ($$$) before the meeting.

I would tell Gordie to stand up....he probably already is....I for one support his questions and Modhydro's questions. I feel they have merit.

[Haüenstein]

The Brat Stop rules!

[mercguy]

Originally posted by Ron Hill
Modhydro is on the same page as I. National Meetings (Not parties, dinners, et al) should be free to members. Hell, when I attend these meeting, I set in on all of them...for 5 minutes or so...So I can know what is happening and so I can report back to Region 12....($110 was not a BIG FEE, but to just go to an OPC meeting, it should be free)...

Maybe, with the membership application, nest to the box for Historical Society, there should be a box to check for the Annual Business Meeting...

AS I said, I will start planning a meeting in Vegas... Cheap flights, go meeting area, good weather...but basic philosophy should be FREE MEETINGS.... Wehn Region 12 made a BIG PROFIT on our National meeting, I returned the funds to the clubs at a ratio they had helped ($$$) before the meeting.

I would tell Gordie to stand up....he probably already is....I for one support his questions and Modhydro's questions. I feel they have merit.

and Steve and Mr. Hill! I find it ridiculous that a MEMBER of APBA would have to pay a fee to be able to participate in ANY of the meetings! What are we paying for with our membership dues??? The way I see it, APBA should be responsible for the costs of the national meetings, not the members DIRECTLY! Yes, the members would be required to pay travel and lodging costs, but NOTHING ELSE! One of the main reasons I started racing, was because it was an "affordable" sport. There is no way I could afford the costs associated with the National Meetings. Seems there is something VERY WRONG here! I am also hearing all these new changes and rules coming out for this season, that I never knew about of even heard about! Does not every member have a say in what is happening??????????? Does not sound like it at all.............:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I am in no way associating any of my views, comments, or complaints to the "holding region", as they are doing the best they can. If they are able to make a little profit for their club fine, but APBA should not profit from it at all...............

[Bill Huson]

The year I was Chairperson of Region 4 I attended the Annual Meeting. That was the year the "Region 4" rule was installed, and the year the APBA decided that all Regions had to send their money to the APBA who would hold the bucks in escrow. The Region would have to file a "request" for dispersal of said funds.

So I arrived at the main meeting and sat in front (learning is directly proportional to the distance from the teacher). The meeting starts, and being sucky at taking notes I clicked on my micro-casstette recorder so I could transcribe the goings on and file a report for the Region members I represented. A dude in a suit up on the stage stopped the meeting and not only informed me that I wasn't allowed to record the meeting but confiscated the tape!

Later in the meeting the rep from the R/C boaters took the floor. Her problem was that the APBA didn't allow the R/C boat members to vote, and they wanted the vote. She quoted a few excerpts from the bylaws to justify her position, but forget that. No way in h*** was the APBA going to allow R/C boaters the vote. Why, you ask? Simple - fear. The APBA had recruited the R/C racers to boost the intake of membership funds and quickly realized that if only half of the R/C racers joined up there numbers would exceed all other catagories ciombined. With a unified voting effort the R/C boaters could have taken over the APBA. The suits on the stage would have been out of a job, and that wasn't going to happen. No vote for the R/C crowd.

Overall, my journey inside the somewhat inner workings of the APBA left me shaking my head. It was also the end of my political aspirations. I'm not one to engage in the futile activity of paddling up a river in a chicken wire canoe or shoveling s*** against a flood tide, so I quit.

[CSH12M]

Every year we hear the same old thing......

Yes Steve is does seem unfair that you have to pay to attend the meeting.......however that is the reality of the situation. APBA as a whole lost money last year! That is fact you can request a balance sheet from headquarters you validate this. Although I doubt few will. It is easier to scream about what I should be entiteld to and not think about why I am not. Their is NO extra money to fund this event and the people hosting it can not take a lose on it!

Gordie, I missed you at the meeting....I was looking forward to seeing you and some others who did not make it. I understand priorities and cost and racing has to take a back seat sometimes. However, I will point out you could of parked in the street and stayed at a hotel a block away for half of the cost. Mr. Hagrel did just that. I agree sometimes the hotel seems "overdone" for the event, but it does require quite a big hotel to house so many meeting rooms and banquet facilities.

The BOD have discussed this very point and are very aware of the cost of the meeting and are trying to think or ways to try and keep it in check. As stated earlier though a quick scan of the balance sheet will show that it probably is not possible.

It is easy to make a complain about injusticae and "quit" the system, as most do and have proclaimed on this site. I respect the person who continues to work to effect change and not just say the system is broken and quit.

Steve if you do not like the system for the National MTG than make a bid to put it on! I am sure APBA would love to get one, as no one is knocking done the door to put one on.

Later,
12M

[Bill Pavlick]

Gordie,

1) I'm not offended.
2) I did not mean to attack you.
3) I just don't understand why your "legitimate questions" were'nt asked during the planning process. Your region put on the event and you had easy access to the meetings where these things were discussed and access to the people that did the planning/work.

Your points are valid. I hate paying to go to a meeting just as much as you, plus I had to pay to work at the meeting.

If people are serious about lowering the cost and making things more accessible to the average Joe, then get involved and start working on it now because I gurantee that the group putting on next years meeting won't have enough help either and will have to scramble just to make it happen, let alone implement major changes.

signed,
a not so uptight Bill

[14-H]

I agree that the meeting costs should not exceed $20.00. When I first ran for APBA council, that was the one item that I pushed for and won. I'm sorry that it didn't happen this year. However, I assume everyone reading this page knows that you don't get anything in life for free (really free). If we reduce the cost of attending the meetings, inevitably, the cost of the rooms will increase in order to offset the hotel's expense in allowing for the use of the rooms (electricity, table and room set up, etc.). Thus, the expense is shifted from those who do not stay in the hotel, to those who do. You tell me what is fair. And how many people in the past have paid for meetings but also gone the "free" hospitality room?

And in case any of you think APBA is in the Big Money, I suggest you take Dean Sutherland's invitation and request a copy of the budget and balance sheet once our new treasurer, Mr. Broussard, completes it. Sure, we can make the meetings free. We just have to raise the price of membership. Again, what's the best way to do it? Pete Hellsten, God rest his soul, came to the annual meeting a few years ago and said "we're going to put on an annual meeting in Region 5 where there is no charge for attending the meetings." Region 5 did just that.

When we all run around complaining about what APBA should do, let's not forget that we just recently won a major war to preserve the fact that WE ARE the APBA. Remember the alternative???

[Gordie Miller]

I also remember writing a fat check to cover the ATTORNEY"S fees to fight that battle. Hmmmmmmmmmm, seems the only winner's in that battle.......................wait a minute, it'll come to me..............the ATTORNEYS. Weird huh. Ok Hearns, let me have it, I'm ready.

[Ron Hill]

AS we used to say, "There is no BUENO." Meaning there is nothinjg good...It was a JOB...We'd say, "There is no wayno." Our Spanish sucked...

I say there is no alternative...we work together, to make the average guy not have to pay for a meeting... (s) How, we promote APBA..

We could sel" T" Shirts, we could have more auctions...


Gordie Miller's point has been made and noted...We all need to work on it for next year..

Miller: In June, you start a thread called: "Pooling Our Funds"... we'll work on "Sponsorship for people that let us know they will be attending the meeting, (Not the whole meeting)... and we'll raise some CASH for them..

[mike ross]

I attended and paid all those costs that are being spoke of. I think the meeting was a huge sucsess and give everyone cedit for the hard work it took to put on this meeting. If we are not willing to put a few bucks toward the sport we love so much then I guess we need to look for another hobby. I was a little unhappy about how the hotel pricing was but to spend time with the people who I call my second family it was worth it. Keep up the good work and thanks Mike

[BLACKBIRD]

I am glad to see that Mr. Hearn has pointed out that getting free drinks and inviting a night of reckless activity is certainly more important than reducing the costs so as a member of APBA can attend a meeting that he/she should be entitled to.

If the regions were permitted to put on a nat. mtg and PERMITTED to profit from it. things would be better. But when region 5 did this the rules got changed so that the BOD would have control over the funds. Now, putting on a meeting is just for the "honor" of doing so.

Lets just face the REAL fact. The membership is decreasing, and when this happens then the organization should conform to these changes.

If things don't change, and if APBA doesn't stop acting like the millionaire club, then there will be 10 unlimited hydro racers, which will contain the 10 board members, which will make up the10 different classes of unlimited (you know,,, "not so fast" right up to,, "fastest") in the 10 regions left, oh their will also be 9 other categories to contain entry level classes with easy to buy equipment like sport c or j class (how many of those trick lowers are left in the world???) (ooops, getting back) and these 10 members will have membership dues of $100,000.00 each so that APBA will still be a millionaires club. Oh yes they will still have to pay to go to their own meetings. But wait!!! the hospitality room will be free. So they can have their attourney's sue each other for who is responsible for who's actions after the social in the hospitality suite.

It cost to do anything today, This is certainly true. But this organization has worn me out, and sucked me dry. Mentaly, and finacialy. I have my membership renewal sitting right here next to me. But I just can't seem to open it up,,,, crap now it is late,,, that will be yet another 100.00 FINE.

I am sure that a cost analisis would reveal and destitute and a "in-the-red" finacial statement. Gee, so does mine. Big whoop!! any acountant worth a crap can do that.

We as members never get the answers to the questions. And when a problem exsists in a region??? Well there is always the national meeting. If you can afford to go. If you prepped the right people. Gee who are the right people? Darn now I forgot what the problem was. Lets see, class rep to club , to region board , to region chair,,,,to,,,to,,opc commision? or opc chair? wait this involves to categories, now lets see,,,queen knight to pawn 4. aw forget it,, Ill just watch a movie instead.

I have been in this APBA (All-Paying-Boating-Alliance) for 14 yrs. I have been to many meetings National ones too. Seen the hall of champs. Been a club president. Read the rule book. Put on a few races. AND STILL have no FREAKIN idea who is in charge of what.

But I do get a cute magazine with pictures in it so it is easy to read. That must be worth 175.00 a year!!!!!:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[hydroracer25]

All (Gordie, Steve, Bill, Ed, Dean.....),

Didn't we all used to be friends??? The wonderful world of email has let us communicate so freely that sometimes I think we lose site of what/how we would be handling this if there was no "net" or hydroracer. Don't get me wrong, this is a great tool and a great resource for racers, but sometimes it allows info to get out too fast and without proper explanations (or some info is even mis-interpreted). People then fly off the handle, say things or type things (which the spoken form of expression is missing) that maybe they shouldn't. We all witnessed a really ugly site last year with a lot of BS flying and even though Dan will never allow that we certainly don't need more animosity between racers of any category.

Bottom line, boat racing is going through a tough time right now and the only way it will improve is through US! If you don't like something step up and try to make a difference. Yes, it shouldn't cost you money to attend the meeting in my opinion (or a very minimal amount at least). However, there are many costs that go along with such a meeting, so both sides can be valid. As Ed mentioned it definitely should be the goal of APBA to bring the costs down so more people would attend.

As for "Blackbird" or whoever you are not liking you 'Cute' little magazine, I think it’s a he!! of a lot better than what any other organization provides. We race and are part of a family called APBA. Maybe the website isn't www.nascar.com, but it provides info, sanctions, manuals, regular points updates, news....

Maybe you get a lot more recognition in your category, but for many of us, this is all the "glory" we will ever get. If other organizations are content without receiving this then that's their choice, I for one feel my 175.00 is well spent. What I do wish is that the AOF, APBA and NBRA could all get together and race as ONE. There would be a much larger membership base and areas that aren't strong for one organization may be stronger in the other(s). Maybe this should be the ultimate goal. Ask what it would take to join together to become stronger? Enough soap boxing.

Let's just take a step back and remember we are all in this together, so let's step up and make a difference.

Mark
:confused:

[Grin&Barrett]

Originally posted by BLACKBIRD
If the regions were permitted to put on a nat. mtg and PERMITTED to profit from it. things would be better. But when region 5 did this the rules got changed so that the BOD would have control over the funds. Now, putting on a meeting is just for the "honor" of doing so.



Jeff,

Region 5 is being considered for the 2005 national meetings.
Give Howie a call and let him know you want to help plan the meetings and you want to make it free for all to attend, minus travel expenses. I'm sure you can drum up enough support from local sponsors with your charming personality to offset the costs for your Region just like we did here. I'm sure Dee would give you all the costs and revenue pertaining to the meeting so you can correct all the mistakes he & all the volunteers made in holding the meeting and making it somewhat enjoyable for the members that did decide to come and be involved in the process.

Guys if you have a problem with the people that were elected then next elections run against them. With that being said I have one complaint of my own and am sorry I didn't bring it up at the meeting, the appointment of Tony Esposito(sp) to the BOD was a mistake in light of what happened last year. The person that should be the person to take the empty seat when it was vacated by R. Steven Hearn when he was put in the position of APBA president should have been the member who received the next highest vote tally in the last election, Al Grabinski(sp), I believe. I agree with Mr. Hearn being president, I don't agree with the BOD's ability to appoint new members to the BOD under any circomstance. That's what got us into the trouble we had last year. I don't know either Al or Tony but I think the members that voted for Al deserve there votes to count for something, and nothing against Tony but he wasn't even nominated for any position on the BOD or Council and since as is written in the By-Laws the council should have been aloud to listen to and offer their opinions during the first 2 BOD meetings in which both these actions took place. That's all I have to say at the moment.

Matthew

[Ron Hill]

I'm pretty sure you and I have had a few beers together....even if we haven't, I know your posts.....

Let me ask you a few things...:

1. What do you want from APBA?

2. What do you want to contribute to APBA?

(Don't confuse this question with "What have you done"???)

3. APBA is NOW in the members hands.....in Daytona, where I think I met you, APBA was in a "CHANGE" MODE... The members now control APBA...

4. How would you change the Propeller Magazine? (FYI: Tana Moore and I email quite frequently. She is very anxious to SUPPORT BOAT RACING. (It is my opinion, with her talent, she COULD work somewhere for much more pay. Ifeel APBA is LUCKY TO HAVE HER.) She is looking for in put. She is looking for artilces... AS OPC CHAIR, I got Buddy Babbitt to write for the PROPELLER...HIS ARTICLE WERE GREAT. Tana Moore has printed my every word (Well, she's made them readable and understandable)...

Who's running the show? YOU!!!! Take some action.... AND, I'm not saying you haven't, but gauld narn, many of us have been working for boating... (See my "APBA TO DO LIST"...maybe you can add to it...

You are a good one for APBA, don't quite, just "DIG IN"...When the going gets tough, try, try a gun....No, maybe...QUIT....No, no, "THE TOUGH GET GOING"...

Here is 2004, a new year for APBA....Use the net...the BOD can read.....well......

[oldunskilledalky]

Annual meetings should be free for its members. Too me, the problem lies in creative thinking! Banquet Halls are in business to make money, like most other businesses. It makes little or no difference which region holds the meetings...Instead of renting hotel meeting rooms or banquet halls look for private schools that have gyms or large buildings such as skating rinks that are often not used weekdays.
On several different ocassions I've attended annual meetings for different organizations in everything except hotels. Once a place has been secured, then line up catering for x amount of people. One can even make arrangements for open or pay bar.
Have a choice on what people would like to attend. One price for those that want dinner before the meeting allowing for gossiping! The rest showing up for a free or minumal charge general meeting. I've attended several from Horse Racing to Roller Skating. I've stayed at the hotels of my choice (depending on pocket book) and ate at Mc Donalds or Banquet style at meeting, again depending on my pocket book at that time.
I've found it interesting and productive to meet people who I have something in comon with but due to geographical locations, never have had the opportunity to meet or speak with. It is fun sharing ideas, even if they are different.
One of my last meetings was in a private school who rented its gym to our group for $300.00 plus $1.00 for every person entering the gym each day. Seven hundred people attended with about 325 having arrived early for dinner. I found myself going to three different hotels after the meeting, visiting people I had just meant. Great meeting. School made a couple thousand and it was rated one of the best meetings ever by those that attended.
So I know it can be done, but it depends on what type of comfort those in charge want? I hope this might give some people different approaches to look at. By no means am I saying this is what you should do. Just an idea or suggestion.

Mike

[BLACKBIRD]

First the "cute" was not ment to discredit the propeller magazine. Tanna Moore does and excellent job and I do keep every copy like so many do. And I agree that we, APBA, are blessed to have her.
I don't mind paying the 175.00, But what does it go for?? rent on the detroit building? Gloria s salary?? Does it simply pay for the cost of producing Propeller?? I just want to know! what does the saction fee go toward?? Lets not get into the insurance. Where is the remains of the legal funds??

Ron You did meet me and we did have many beers together and I enjoyed talking with you. So why are you not at the meeting and where did your enthusiasm go?? You should hav erun I would have voted for you. I like some of the ideas you have (ie. hot boats show at the races).

We are just too big for our britches. We have too many chiefs and too many bills to pay. why can't we use the internet as a platform for discussion on rule changes or bi law making. Heck why not use it for a meeting place, where all the cheif can discuss items and we could watch the results unfold. (simply as an official or BOD you would have different level passwords to be in on discussions) and we could watch!!! See who is making a differents and who is not.

I LOVE boat racing I would gladly participate in its opperation. But times have changed the "good ole days" are gone. We need to stop looking backward to how it used to be and look ahead to what need be done.

I can no longer see the importance of a 5 star hotel to host the National meeting. For who??? only those that can afford to make the trip?? If we are back to the members running the show then we need to accomodate them.

Yes region 5 is up for Nat mtg. It was discussed at a region meeting, where it was shot down with the inability to profit from it. region 5 has a situation with the profits from the last daytona meeting that is still unresolved. An if a big back yard BBQ with several loctions for separate meeting, with no 1000.00 ice carvings and no red carpert treatment. Just a down to earth business like meeting would be acceptable. I would entertain hosting it my self on ski island.

And Matthew,, I like Howie I have also had talks with him on how he feels his hands are tied. None of this is simple and this is where we need to solve it. REDUCE THE COMPLEXITY OF IT!!

Goodness I am getting excited again, maybe I will fill out that membership