Problem Solved

[dholt]

Sure has been interesting reading all this OMC 'A' and Merc 'A' stuff. Best part is seeing guys post who have never, or rarely, posted here before. Must mean they are pretty serious about this topic.

Sounds like the vast majority DOES NOT want the OMC 'A' be altered in any way.

Also sounds like the arguments for having new equipment for drivers is solved too.

If a new guy comes in the sport and he wants to easily buy new equipment, then go get a Merc J/A and run AXS. Plus, you're competitive right off the bat.

If a guy wants to run ASH or ASR and race against the vets, he can hunt for a new engine. It's his or her choice. Just like all the other classes. Nothing else is currently available. Sounds like marinas have enough oldies to go around. Plus, current race engines come up for sale now and then.

And I echo some of my competitors comments...."WE NEED A NEW 'B' ENGINE more than screwing with 'A'.

This LAME argument that J kids aren't ready to run other classes after J is silly. For 50 years there was nothing in between 'J' and 'A'. Did Stock die? No. In the glory days of the 70's, stock was huge. You went from 'J' to 'A' or started elsewhere if you were already an adult.

Shoot, most of us went from a 35 mph 60-J to a 56 mph, jacked to the sky, breaking loose KG4 ASH.

Going from a current 41 mph JH to a 57 mph, totally stable, 1 3/8" buried ASH is cake compared to that.

When did America's youth lose their ability to drive a race boat? Have we convinced them and ourselves that they can't do it? Not saying get rid of the AXS...but let's get some perspective here.


Dana

[CSH12M]

If I hear one more guy say stop messing with A when what we need is a B I am going to have a heart attack!!

No kidding we need a B engine! nobody will disagree with that but where does it come from! It's not like no one has looked! There is no easy answer for B. THAT SAID IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE A ARGUEMENT!! One has nothing to do with the other!!

Do we need a new motor in A or not? If yes, we have to make it somewhat competitive. If not then it does more harm than good to have them in the class, so let's get them out of their.

Please no more "we really need a B engine posts" unless you have a plan for one. That means you D Holt….

Thanks,
Dean
12M

[PHILIP DI FEBO]

I think we need to hear from people that actually run the A class and see what the 200 hundred drivers think. There isnt a problem with the A class the only problem lies in the merc motor b/c the merc motor doesnt have any gearcases to make it a complete motor.
Dominic
24-Q

[Haüenstein]

Hi Dominic, good to hear from you.

The OMCs in the junkyards don't have any gearcases to make them a complete motor either, so the powerhead really has nothing to do with the gearcase problem.

Dana your plan doesn't work because there's an age limit in AXS that goes into effect in 2007. I also don't know where your "vast majority" comes from. Perhaps it's the same people looking for the new B motor?

[Big Don]

67% of the people that voted in the "A" engine poll voted to restrict the OMC. A restricted OMC with a .700 restrictor will still beat the Mercury. It's just a place for someone to race their Mercury and be competitive and not be 3 MPH off the pace. Your good props will still be your good props with the OMC restricted. Did everyone have to go buy new props when we started plugging the engines? Did we have to buy new props when we allowed blueprinting? I know we didn't. Our good "A" wheels back then are still our good ones and are the best on the AXS. Ed Runne said he saw his best speeds in 94, so I have to assume his good wheels back then are still his good wheels since he is not going any faster. We know his engines are good!! I just don't see the harm to allow the Mercury to run in the class.

Don
11-W

[CSH12M]

Hey Dom, whats up?

Dom what is the harm if everyone has to drop the .700 restrictor in their motor? Most who have raced it says you can hardly tell a difference. The OMC would still have a huge edge, but at least the other motors would not go from first to dead last on the first lap. Outside of the "don't mess with my class reasons" what is the down side? The upside is a few more motors to purchase for someone who does not want to scrounge around a marina. If everyone has to do it you are all on the same level playing field. Your prop is no more obsolete than the next guys. Take your number two prop and have a little shaved off for the next year. No one is saying let the Mercs. win and at .700 they won't, but at least they woudl have some hope....

Later,
Dean
12M

[PHILIP DI FEBO]

We actually did have to buy new wheels when blue printing was allowed. And the 67% was not all A drivers so until all 200 hundred A drivers vote u can forget what that dumb poll says because it means nothing. And if the merc motor became the dominat motor we would be better off selling the omc motors to the antique outboarders. We sure arent going to put the gear cases on the merc motor there would be no benefit. And until there is do***ented evidence on what the differences are there should be no change. And why should the whole country change for a hand full of people. And another thing i know of about 15 engines thaat are for sale that knowbody has asked forthem, we have 2 or 3 we have been trying to sell and knowbody has said a word about them. The bottom line is there isnt any new people looking for motors. There are pleny of complete racing engines all over the place and nobody is trying to buy them. So if you ask me the only reason for this change is for handfull people that purchaced the engines for the j class and now wanna run A classes and that is obsured. And why dont we just make the merc compete with the omc there are less Merc motors the omc motors would that be the easier way to go.
Dominic
24-Q

[18W]

Dom-
Does anyone know those motors you speak of are for sale? I know of several people looking for OMC A motors. And they can't find one.
davey

[CSH12M]

This motor has been a legal A engine for 3 years. So what about the guy who bought one for his J kid thinking he could also use it in A in a few years. Since it was a legal engine he figures it should be competitve right? WRONG So how absurd is it....all we are asking you to do it drop a $15 dollar part in your motor. His motor has no more use. If the Merc can run competitvly in A the the J motor A motor combo is still available which is a natural stepping stone.

What is absurd is having a motor that is legal in the class that does not have a chance. Testing has been done and the opinion of the majority of our best engine guys is the port timing is to low to EVER make it competitve.

What is also absurd is expecting that a new guy wants to buy a racers 2nd 3rd or 4th engine, or scrounge in a marina to find one. Are you really telling me that being able to buy a new motor in a class is a bad thing for the class....history would not support you. The A classes were also some of the biggest classes when we raced KG4 and Mark15 but it was time for change then and I think it may be time for change now.

You will still be the fastest Dom, you are just going to have to spend $15 dollars to do it.

Later,
Dean
12M

[14-H]

Originally posted by PHILIP DI FEBO
*** So if you ask me the only reason for this change is for handfull people that purchaced the engines for the j class and now wanna run A classes and that is obsured.****Dominic
24-Q

I believe this is exactly why the OMC's should be restricted (but still competitive). There are people out there who have bought and will buy Mercurys (and possibly 15 cu.in. Johnsons/Evinrudes) who don't have the resources to scrounge for parts. It's only through new people that we can grow. Unless all us OMC guys just want to keep racing each other and trading titles every year. Then the A class will be just like the B class. Touche' Dana!

[Dr. Thunder]

Rhetorical question for this thread ... just how much difference does your best (restricted .700 OMC) ASH prop make when compared to the prop being used by "new guy" with a merc engine ... what would be the competitive difference if the two drivers exchanged props. Point being ... I think too much is being made out of the mechanical/technical differences between the two motors and not enough is being said about the ability to get a good start, drive smart, and, have a "really fast prop". There are way too many variables in play here for membership not to support a straightforward, simple, easily accomodated, $15 solution as one way to help level the playing field.

PS: anybody really serious about a National Championship engine being subject to claiming ... maybe in exchange for a new J/A Mercury (with foot). :p

[14-H]

Originally posted by Dr. Thunder
and not enough is being said about the ability to get a good start, drive smart, and, have a "really fast prop". There are way too many variables in play here for membership not to support a straightforward, simple, easily accomodated, $15 solution as one way to help level the playing field.
:p

Great post. I totally agree. The problem here is that the current Merc driver gets a great start and then finishes last under the current system. I'm not saying: let's make it so a Mercury wins the nationals this year. But let's at least put an end to the start-first, finish-last problem.

[BP125V]

I think it is great that the Di Febo's have engines available for sale to other racers. And I applaud their efforts to go out and find them and save them from the scrap pile and get them back into racing. Gary Pond does the same thing. However, as Davey mentioned, who knew? I guess people do now and some will benefit from it. I hope so.

But the issue lies with the fact that a person who goes to a race and asks me how to get started and where to get equipment will walk away when I tell him where his engine is coming from. Just because 400,000 were made, does not mean that they are available.

Recently I have spoken to 4 A drivers here in Region 7 who run OMC's and all are in favor slowly restricting the OMC's so the Merc can be competitive and an attractive engine for the class. I do not think it is a fair statement to say that this issue is being driven by people who own Mercs. We honestly have a bunch of OMC owners who are concerned about where their competition is going to come from. Myself included.

Bill Pavlick

[BP125V]

I'm a new commissioner and in a few weeks will be voting on a bunch of issues for our category. As such I thought I would take the time now to give you some background as to why I think the way I do about the A engine issue.

I started racing in 1981 is ASH with a Mk 15. Ok engine, my dad bought it from a friend. Tough class, very challenging, way off the pace but lots of fun. Three years later when my brother Mike wanted to start racing, in ASH as well, we could not find an engine for him. He borrowed one from a friend to get started and blew it up big time at our 2nd race of the year in Grand Rapids, MI. My dad and Mike tried very hard to find one to buy and finally found a piece of junk that ran but was very slow. Kept Mike going until he could scrounge up another one from CA, I think.

Fast forward to 1986. Mike promptly gets a new OMC, as do a whole bunch of people. Great. He has a new toy, keeps it long enough to let sister Beth start in J 1989.

Fast forward again this time to 2002, much to Jeff Scheffler's delight (and shock I'm sure) I'm going racing in ASR. But guess what, I can't find an engine to buy. Oh yeah, by the way, Beth wants to get back into racing in ASH and she can't find one either. We end up borrowing Tad Olson's engine for the entire year.
Twice in our family's tenure in the sport, we could not buy an engine for the A class!!! If we were'nt so stupid and so committed to the sport, we would have said screw it and gone and done something else a long time ago.
Had a friend from our area looking for an OMC last fall. Made phone calls, had a line on one, but sorry, it sold. Tried several other times and gave up.

Long boring story, but the point is, if we want to get new people in the sport, they have to have legitimate access to decent engines.

We have absolutely no marketability for our sport if we do not have new engines available.


It is for the above reasons that I am in favor of gradually slowing the OMC down in order to make the Merc competitve. We need it as even as possible as the OMC. We need stability in our sport, and that is why I say gradually.

Bill Pavlick

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

Hey, guys a little suggestion. After you type your reply take a deep breath and re-read it before you send it. We have a lot on our plate coming up in the future of our sport. It doesnt help to insult one another. All of you have good points and we all cant agree. Heck, even my wife and I dont agree on this issue! Here are a few of my answers and I will shut up.
-Bill Pavlick said, "If we were'nt so stupid and so committed to the sport, we would have said screw it and gone and done something else a long time ago." Come on Bill, give yourself a break, your family is one of the best in our sport and far from stupid. Most people dont realize that because your pits dont make a sound! Good luck on your 1st commissioner ride, I doubt you will find this meeting boring.
-Dominic, good to hear from you. I also didnt know you had motors for sale but I think there may be another problem. I personally need to buy two engines this summer. One J and one A. I would be a fool to even look for one until this debate is over and we have some direction to go in from the SORC. Maybe people are in a 'just wait and see' mode like me. I will make a decision on which way to go after the meeting. I may not like the SORC's decision when it comes, but what ever it is I will respect it. They are the people doing all the work for me.
-I find the original poll on this subject to be quite funny, my wife and I both ran ASH last year and never got a ballot or even heard about the poll until this week. Oh, well I guess we out of the loop.
And furthermore in reply to a past thread, yes I am APBA and when I ask APBA to make me an available gear foot for the J, AX and A classes I am asking the rest of APBA that are smarter than me in the gear foot production field for help. I know trees, not gear foot production. I know most American hardwoods only by smell! But I cant even begin to know how to make a gearfoot. If you know how then please help all of us. I feel that is more important at this point. Yes you can make the Merc and Omc more compatible with restrictors but I know from being around a while, without gear feet they will just make this funny whirrring sound when you start them in the water.

:)