National Mtg Question?.......Insurance Cost

[CSH12M]

Ok, with the APBA National Meeting coming and a new board that will be in place with new by-laws, I thought it might be a good time to approach this topic?

Many of you have probably seen that APBA has signed a new one year insurance policy. It provides the same coverage we have always had at a reduced cost of approximately $200.00 a weekend. You also have an option of reducing the max. liablity from 2 million to 1 million and saving about an additional $150.00 Obviously this is all good news for clubs putting on races.

Now for a tough question. In our past and current policy we provide $20,000 of medical coverage. If you are unisured or your insurance policy will not cover all expenses you will have up to $20,000 of coverage. If we decided we did not need this coverage the cost of our insurance would be reduced furthur. Appox. $500.00 is an estimate......

I have good medical coverage through my employer and if I did not I do not think I would race......so for me it is a no brainer.....lower the cost. However, in various discussions with other racers on this topic I find more people are uninsured and racing than I thought......

So......(if you do not mind saying)

Do you....

Race without medical insurance?

Would you like APBA to drop the medical if it meant lowering race day insurance cost?

Another thought (and I am not sure this is fact) I have heard that in the last 10 years the cost of the premums for the medical were higher than the money paid out every year except one........ So maybe APBA could "self insure" the medical portion. I am guessing though that it could mean a higher cost to join APBA? What are the thoughts on this.....

All of the above are just what I have heard or read and are not necessarly fact! However, this is a great forum to get an idea of the public opinion on different issues and this is one issue that the new BOD should understand what the racers want.......

What do you think.....

Later,
Dean
12M

[Dr. Thunder]

Dean ... not sure about this anymore but does anyone know if third-party coverage (employer sponsored plans e.g.) or self -insured plans preclude benefits for injuries sustained in "high-risk" activities?

PS: I have extensive medical ... members should also keep in mind the need for dental, and ADD (accidental death and dismemberment)and Life insurance coverages as well ... they are relatively inexpensive compared to the alternative

[Abbott Racing]

I would hesitate on allowing race committees the flexability of lowering or eliminating the medical insurance. I been to races where they opt for the cheap ambulance service. In the early eighties I remember seeing a racer almost bleed to death because the race committee went with the cheapie ambulance that when they were needed would not transport.

So keep the insurance you never know who is going to need it.

[CSH12M]

I am not talking about giving the race committee any flexability and it has nothing to do with race site ambulance service.

Next year APBA could ask several different insurance companies to submit a bid to be APBA insurance carrier. In the past we have carried $20,000 of medical insurance. If you wrecked and had no health insurance you had at least $20,000 to go towards your ambulance ride and hospital visit. If you have good health insurance you do not even need it. If you have no health insurance you at least have $20,000......

I did not think people would race without health insurance.......we all know that if anything "serious" would happen you would go through $20,000 in a day or two at the hospital leaving you responsible to pay the rest. However, in discussing this with other people I am finding more and more racers who are competing without health insurance......

Do we sacrafice the $20,000 to cut the weekend race cost of insurance in half. This is a very though question. Or do we ask APBA to self insure and possibly pay a higher membership fee to cover the cost?

In the current policy (if I understand correctly) a club can decied what amount of liability insurance it needs. Five years ago $1,000,000 dollars was the standard. This was upped to $2,000,000 ( I think ) three years ago. If a club thinks $1,000,000 is enough you have an option to take it and save around $150 dollars a weekend. This is a liability option and has nothing to do with medical.

So what do people think, lower club race cost and sacrafice medical insurance or keep it the way it is in the future. Discuss this at your club meetings and inform the new BOD of your opinions.

Thanks,
Dean

[Jeff_G]

The liability through the 2003 season was $5,000,000 in the past it was $1,000,000. It was felt, by the BOD at that time, that in today's world that the $5M was a more realistic figure. The increase in premimums charged to go from $1M to $5M was about $40.00. No much. But I feel this was offset in other areas. At the same time the premiums were combined into one figure not seperated as previously.
However there are many small "club" type races that felt that $1M was enough and could they have the option.

As for the $20,000 in medical it was raised to that from the previous $7,500. If you have no insurance the APBA insurance would be primary.
If you had other insurance the APBA insurance would be secondary. The APBA insurance however would pick up the co-insurance and deductables your primary insurance didn't. So it in reality is very important even if you have other coverage.
Jeff Grigg

[CSH12M]

Thnaks for the better explanation Jeff!

How much more important is it though.......(philisophical question)

In small outboard racing the cost of putting on the event is one of the biggest factors in the reduced number of events. So I am asking philisophically if you can reduce cost another $500 per weekend, is it worth forfieting the medical. Or should we encourage APBA to self insure for medical?

If we did get a $500 deduction plus a race took $1,000,000 in liability so add $150 plus the $200 reduction in rates this year. A club could possibly reduce cost by $850. This would mean 35 less entries per weekend and you could still break even. If you can cover cost with 70 entries then maybe we could run more races. We also would not have to be as sensitive to not running a Region 6 race against Region 7 or so on...... maybe if you could race your rig 6 or 7 times in the same state you live we could RETAIN more members, and retention is our real problem!

Something to think about.......

[CSH12M]

Ok,

I just reread my last post......and I am not saying eliminating the medical is the right thing to do. I was just trying to illustrate the effect it could have. Personally I think I do lean that way.......however, I really would like to see what other people think and I am fortunate to have good insurance.

Jeff, are you in favor of keeping the medical?

Thanks,
Dean
12M

[Jeff_G]

Dean, I would never advocate getting rid of the medical. It is the one area we really get our money's worth. I have seen many cases where a driver had no insurance or had lost their insurance but they still kept racing. What if they had an expensive accident? Since it also picks up the tab for deductables, and co-payments, if you have other insurance, it is very valuable to all drivers.

The liability insurance is where the real savings can be. The allowance to chose either $1M or $5M should be a real help to the clubs.
BUT, the expenses are really in our own hands. We the conducting clubs and members can, I believe, significantly help reduce the expense. How? By reducing the risks.

That is the reason the risk manager was put into place. We need to police our race course and pit areas better. If we reduce the liability to spectators, friends and non-participants, and require all participants to sign the waivers, then we may be able to reduce costs.

We get what we pay for. If we follow all the underwriting guidelines, and even take one more step in making the race site safer, then we will save money.

The insurance companies are not really concerned about the medical as much as the liability from a spectator. They are only liable for $20,000 from a participant, where as a spectator can sue for multiple millions.

[Abbott Racing]

Dean, I think you misinterpreted my note re:ambulance etc..... (that was put in as an example of poor decisions to cut costs)

My concern is that I wouldn't mind betting that there are lots of folks who don't have medical insurance, so the $20K coverage is therefore important to keep them safe. I was concerned when I first read your post that the race committee could have the option to take the insurance or not in order to reduce costs. I realize that cost is a big factor for putting on an outboard race I am involved in putting on 2 a year in this neck of the woods and it is tough. But I think a tougher call is to not to have insurance coverage for all. I would hate to be the one to say cut the 20K coverage to save costs and then your friend gets in a wreck, and find out he doesn't have his own insurance for medical expenses.

[dholt]

Certainly having medical insurance provided by the sanctioning organization is an added bonus. And it's pretty important for those that don't have other insurance.

But just how much would it affect participation?

As I understand it, AOF doesn't have a fixed medical benefit for injuries. They have something called a Hospital Fund, or something similar. This is what I was told a year or so ago. Please, someone from AOF weigh in here and give us the cold, hard facts as to what a driver is entitled to if they are injured at an AOF race and they have no other insurance. Or...what are they entitled to even if they have their own insurance.

At any rate, this lack of a fixed medical benefit doesn't seem to detract drivers from attending AOF races. So would it prevent a lot of guys from attending an APBA event if not offered?


D.

[Dave M]

Dean,

I would suggest talking to AOF or NBRA as this is basically what they have currently I believe, someone correct me if I am wrong ?

Personal experience - Most insurance providers do not cover racing. To get your insurance provider to pay, you have to tell them a boating accident rather than boat racing accident.

Personaly, I would be willing to drop that coverage to lower the cost.

I also know you would not gain as many new members perhaps, I have one right now who is not insured, recently married, still in school, and has no real job to provide insurance yet. His wife told him he could race once they have insurance. Just an example both ways.

Dave

[bill boyes]

Dean.
Do we know the % of racers without medical insurance? seems to me that the racers with major medical are paying the tab for the racers without major medical.
What if an insurance company had a policy for major medical while racing available to purchase when paying your APBA membership. as an option of course. those with major medical would not have to purchase it.
just a thought.

[Jeff_G]

Dave, most, not all, insurance provided through your emplorer does not have any restrictions on racing. Many personal policies do have that restriction. The best thing would be to check with your policy issuer.

I personally don't believe medical insurance or the lack of significantly deters someone from racing. More so the club type racer. What does deter some is the lack of liability insurance. Particularly if they have assets which could be at risk.

[CSH12M]

Just to clear up any confusion....this is just speculation and by no means do the race committee or clubs have the option to decied to take or leave medical. If I understand correctly under the new "one year" contract they do have the right to lower liability coverage from 5 million to 1 million (what is was three years ago) and save $150 dollars.

A year from now APBA will have to go and negotiate a new insurace policy. Do we need the medical portion? would it be worth dropping if it reduced the policy cost $500 dollars for a weekend race (a estimated amount).

We have seen AOF do something similar and it does not seem to have hurt their participation. If anything they have grown (prior to their split) because of their ability to put on a lower cost race.

Here is a hypothetical question....... what if we dropped the medical for a new policy therby reducing the cost of putting on the race. However, APBA "self insured" for the $20,000 coverage, but tacked another $50 to your yearly membership? What do you think the average racer would think?

Or maybe as Mr. Boyes mentioned if you check a box on your membership for "no insurance" you pay "x" amount more to have access to the $20,000 coverage. If you check no you pay less a year but are excluded.

I would also point out as Jeff did a few years ago this coverage was only $7,500. Nobody seemed to pay attention to it then......

Keep the opinions rolling.....and lets see some from some of the people running for the BOD. I know you guys read this sight!

Later,
Dean
12M

[dholt]

Dean,

The idea of APBA self insuring is great...but would they want to get into that situation? Sounds like a can of worms the BOD wouldn't want to open.

But adding $50 to each member's fee would be a lot better than forcing clubs to pony up all that money to keep $20,000 in medical insurance...which most guys will never use. I doubt many guys would have a problem with that.

Or as Bill said, make the guys who don't have medical pay the price. He's right. Those who don't have medical (and I wish they did) are riding coat tails to a degree. Although, it's a hell of a risk to race and know that you only have $20,000 in medical benefits to fall back on. I have $1 million over a lifetime through my work insurance.

If race costs were reduced, clubs could even lower entry fees...thus passing the savings on to drivers. And that would certainly help participation. Back in the 80's, guys far more classes than today. Now, the average driver runs 1-2 classes. Used to be 2-3 was common...if not more.

It's certainly worth exploring options for '05.

And hey...how about them Trojans! Same old Michigan on the west coast. Tent was folded before kickoff.

D.

[Dr. Thunder]

The experts may want to weigh in on this subject ... but, aren't we talking about two separate issues. First, APBA liability coverage is one thing and the medical benefit another. Both are most likely experience rated. That is to say the premium will be based on some claims cost to premium received relationship.

Is it possible that those injured while racing without (their own) insurance coverage ... that is to say not using APBA as a secondary coverage benefit for out of pocket costs (deductibles, co-insurance etc.) are increasing the premium costs for those members that race and have their own coverage.

General and, where applicable, Professional Liability premiums for most business enterprises are increasing at unprecedented rates. 100%+ increases are not uncommon.

So, does anyone on here know how the APBA premiums are structured and how APBA arrives at that portion of sanction fees that pass to the local club for the insurance premium.

[CSH12M]

Dont start with Michigan, that is a whole different thread........

Bucs looked good though, at least a little Big Ten respect....

In the last BOD meeting I attended this topic was discussed quite a bit and "self insuring" was talked about. The information I heard then was that the dues collected were more than the claims recieved for the last several years. I think Ed Hearn may have that info. It is a simple risk reward calculation, but if APBA did seld insure they have to cover that cost somehow, I am guessing with higher fees.

This is why this topic is so important, let them know your feelings. Insurance and race cost is the most important topic facing us "in my opinion".

I love to look at all the cool stuff and threads on this site, but CMON this is very important. I would also like to see some different peoples opinions......

Ed where are you on this one?

Later,
Dean
12M

[mercguy]

Originally posted by Jeff_G
Dave, most, not all, insurance provided through your emplorer does not have any restrictions on racing. Many personal policies do have that restriction. The best thing would be to check with your policy issuer.

I personally don't believe medical insurance or the lack of significantly deters someone from racing. More so the club type racer. What does deter some is the lack of liability insurance. Particularly if they have assets which could be at risk.

You guys should check your employer's provided issurance to make sure a boat racing accident is covered. Alot of carrier's consider what we do as Professional Boat Racing, even if we win no $$$$$. I also have a supplementary issurance carrier, AFLAC, which adds coverage to the kinda acccidents you might have at home and pays you a set amount for damages, BUT, clearly states that boat racing accidents ARE NOT covered.........

[WebinfoAPBA]

Daren makes a good point -- most insurance companies covering small groups or individual plans will not cover motor sports racing.

But for those in large group plans with the "Great" insurance, you might also want to check your physical therapy limits. Even when I belonged to a large group plan with "great" insurance coverage, it only covered 10 physical therapy visits total (3.2 weeks) at a cost of $225 per week.

With the injuries I had I was released from the ER the same day and I was not hospitalized. But I needed to undergo physical therapy for six months for my arm injuries. That left me with thousands of dollars of uncovered PT that I would have had to pay out of my own pocket. APBA had K&K coverage at the time, and K&K picked up much of those costs for me.

Just something to think about.

[Jeff_G]

Yes this is an interesting discussion. Lets keep it up.

The medical portion of the insurance premium is about 25% of the entire premium. The other 75% of the premium is the liability portion.

Some thoughts to ponder concerning self insuring.
Who will administer the plan?
Would we have to hire extra personnel?
What if the claims exceed the additional membership fees?
Would APBA have to have a policy to cover unexpected overages?

Additional question. If we could save a couple hundred, $250 lets say, would we be able to increase the number of races? If we raise the membership an extra $50 would we discourage new and renewing members? I do hear a lot of talk about membership being too high already.

BTW I am running for BOD. :eek:

[CSH12M]

Great questions Jeff!

These are the exact questions I would like to see some opinion on.

My opinion is we could increase the amount of races if we reduced the cost. I am collecting all the data back to 1980 for the small outboard catagories on this exact topic. The data I have so far shows a direct correllation between the number of races run in a year and the membership of that catagorey, it is amazing it is a direct correlation year for year!

I do also agree with your point about membership fees being percieved as high!

This is definetely a difficult topic but we should continue to discuss and brainstorm a plan.

What is more important medical coverage or race cost......it is easy to sit here and say it is the medical coverage, that is the PC thing to say. However, the success of AOF and NBRA would suggest that in reality that is not necessarily the case.

Lets here so more.....

Cmon, potential BOD conidates chime in....I know you read this. Jeff G. is the only one I have heard from so far on this!

Thanks,
Dean
12M

[Abbott Racing]

Dean, I like the thought train on the adding the medical insurance to the membership application where the member has the option to buy or not. we have a similar type of setup in CBF where you have the option to buy additional insurance at an additional cost when you join.

This would put the responsibility on the racer to check their own insurance and if racing is not covered then they could buy additional coverage.

[Dave M]

As I mentioned on the first page, my medical coverage will not cover racing, I am emplyeed through a very large corporation, and they use Blue Cross Blue Shield. My parents have BCBS as well, and they are not covered racing. Like I said above, if you claim a boating accident it is covered, you claoim boat racing accident, no dice.

Membership Dues High - I have heard a great many people complain about the cost of memberships. I think it is high myself. One thing that contributes to this is timing. It is shortly after Christmas and most of us are trying to catch up the credit cards fromt he big spend. Another couple hundred is sometimes hard to spare when you have 20% APR staring you down. If at all I would work to reduce the cost of racing to the members. I would certainly never lobby to increase it.

But I do know one thing, the whole membership should vote on whatever insurance coverage and costs will be incurred and passed on to the racer. Let the members decide in the end. That is the sort of topic that people move to other organizations for.

With the rising cost of health care in the country, this is going to be a hot topic. Kellogg's has increased our premiums we pay for uinsurance, and has reduced benefits somewhat because the costs have directly impacted the bottom line now. This is not a small issue any longer.

[propwash2]

My two cents.....I think that APBA shouldn't necessarily look at dropping medical 100%, maybe look into the other alternatives mentioned like offering medical on a member to member basis. I say this only because a lot of people who assume that they have wonderful benefits and work for great companies will find out that boat racing is usually not covered (i said usually). Also, you may not be in a position to explain to your carrier you were in a "boating accident" so, as far as the uninsured members costing the insured members sanction fees, I would disagree, it covers all of us regardless. Even if your insurance company does cover your accident, I am quite sure they will consider dropping you as you participate in a high risk activity (Been there). I think we should try to negotiate keeping some sort of medical, while we are in a position to negotiate, and keep the benefits available to everyone, including those who have insurance. I am not sure about this, but if you don't tell APBA you have insurance or you check the box that says I don't have insurance on your membership application, who is the wiser? How do we really know that those who don't have insurance are the ones costing us money??? In my opinion, I definetly want to lower costs. I think looking in to member to member basis insurance may be the way to go if it is affordable. This way, people who do have insurance can opt out if they want and at the same time not feel that those who don't have it are costing them money. Also, it provides those without insurance, insurance. I would pay for it even on top of my medical insurance so that I won't run the risk of losing my current insurance that covers the whole family, not just myself.
Sheryl

[CSH12M]

We can not lower race cost, lower membership fees, and keep the medical the way it is. Something has to give......

Everyone keeps giving the example of their current insurace not covering them in a racing accident....... and so far the opinion seems to be keep the $20,000 of medical. So if this is the case how many of you carry supplimental insurace to cover you for racing??? We all know that if the accident is serious it could cost a few hundred thousand dollars, yet I would guess less than 25% of the racers buy supplimental insurance. Why dont you buy it to protect yourself? Risk vrs reward, you feel the chance of something that serious happining is minimal.....if that is the case why should we all pay to all carry $20,000 if we could lower the cost of putting on races? I am just playing devils advocate here?

Dave do you have supplimental insurance? Do you race AOF? If so why?

I would also point out if you file a few hundred thousand dollar claim, I think they will check out the accident enough to know whether is was recreational or racing related.

Later,
Dean
12M

[propwash2]

All I am saying is for APBA to provide us the opportunity to purchase supplemental insurance at the time of membership. That way it is still costing the MEMBERS. The only reason I say to do it this way is the costs to the MEMBERS may be down because it could be considered a group policy, no cost to APBA if it is even possible. I agree with reducing race costs completely, but if APBA can do a better job of providing a link to supplemental insurance to benefit its stakeholders, why not?

[CSH12M]

I agree with completely Propwash!

I think my opinion is to eliminate the medical and lower race cost, however if possible I think you should sign up when you join either for a negotiated supplimental ploicy, of APBA could self insure for it possibly.

Lets take a hypothetical though....

Lets say all the above comes true and when you join you have the option of purchasing a policy for $250 that will cover up to $100,000 of medical. (these are all just made up numbers) How many people do you think would take it? I would bet less than 25% of the racers who could use it would take it. This is just a gut feel guess........ however I think most of the people would save the $250 and are willing to bet that they do not need the $100,000......just my guess.

Later,
Dean
12M

[propwash2]

Possibly, most likely, small amounts would sign up. I would. Especially if someone put the prior coverage vs supplemental in my face! We really need to lower races costs, ultimately.

[Jeff_G]

Playing devil's advocate here for a minute.
The medical portion of the insurance we pay is around 25%. The insurance is somewhere between 30% to 50% of the cost associated with a local club race. That would mean around 15% to 25% maximum savings to a club.
How many additional races would we get? We're talking about a $250 savings.
What are the other fininacial and human resource costs associated with a race.
Can we get all the necessary officials?
Can we secure the body of water?
Can we secure the local permitting, Coast Guard, police, city etc?

So if we save $250 what effect would that have on participation. Particularly as it applies to those that have no insurance? Would they still race, with NO insurance?

If we as a group decided to allow members to opt out of the medical coverage, would it raise the costs to the rest of us by having a smaller pool to draw from?

I would like to see what it would cost on an individual basis to buy medical insurance to cover one for the entire season.

I think another way at looking at this is we can either pay all up front through our membership fees. Or as we have in the past in reality pay as we go through entry fees. At least with paying through entry fees you are only paying if you attend that race. So a driver, in reality, that races 15 times per year pays more then the driver that races 5 times. In a way that seems fair.

[bill boyes]

Dean. whats need to be done here is a study of what kind of medical coverage and cost would be available for race day coverage paid annually at the time of membership renewal. we are looking at ways to lower the insurace fees in putting on a race. you said around $500. that is a lot money. as i said the racers with major medical are paying the tab for the uninsured. if that $500 is returned to the racers in lower entry fees. all racers benefit . Now then the racers who are under insured or have riders that cancel do to racing can purchase race day medical insurance for a nominal fee.
This sounds real good. However, how many racers without major medical would purchase this race day medical policy? hard to say.

another question. since the $20,000 medical is secondary how much money was paid out in claims for 2003?
if APBA had 500 sanctions at $500 for major medical =$250,000

[14-H]

Okay: here's some basic info (Dean: I was in a trial):
All insurance purchased from ASIS is on a flat-rate based upon an assumed number of events for each coverage. Liability is approximately $400K; Participant Accident (medical) is appx $150K; and I don't remember the rest. I've requested the actual numbers and I'll update this post. In 2004, each club will have the ability to purchase a $5M, $3M or $1M liability policy for the event. The amount charged to each category of racing is set by the APBA BOD. These amounts are collected and paid to ASIS in installments for the overall premium. At the end of the year, APBA and ASIS "settle up" so that if we don't run the number of assumed events, we get a credit; if we run more, we owe.

The diff between the $5M and $1M is approx. $150.00 per two-day SO, MOD, PRO, J event. So there will be some savings in buying a $1M or $3M policy. Over the last 3 years, there was no choice: the club had to buy the $5M coverage.

Thus, the issue with respect to the Medical insurance (which is $20K per person excess coverage) is this: It's all or nothing. Either we buy it or we don't. At least with ASIS, there would be no opportunity to pay an extra $50 per member and opt-in or opt-out. If we want it, we pay the $150K for the year. In the last two or three years, ASIS has paid out less in benefits than what APBA has paid for the premium for this coverage.

Here's the kicker though: If we don't buy the coverae, this would reduce the insurance premium per race by about 1/3. So a two-day event normally costing $2000.00 would be about $1300.00! The issue is: do we believe that we can have more races with the reduced insurance premium?

In this analysis consider that AOF, NBRA and the new Region 10 club (can't remember the name), only have liability. They have no medical insurance and thus, they will be able to put on events much cheaper than APBA. In fact, this is how they have successfully picked-up old APBA race sites.

What's best for APBA? Let's hear it. 14-H

[dholt]

Ed,

Thanks for providing the golden answer.

Clubs could save $700 per race if they weren't obligated to buy the Participant Accident coverage.

That is substantial money. The savings over 2 races could pay for a third race.

Now, the real question, as someone posed earlier...is would the cheaper cost of putting on a race lead to more races?
There are so many factors in getting races. Cost is just one...but a big one.
Available water is way more difficult to find compared to 15-20 years ago. For those areas lacking races....would putting on a race be a piece of cake if the cost was not a factor?? East coast...are you out there?

Also, would the cheaper cost of putting on a race allow clubs to reduce entry fee...and would that encourage more participation at each race? Most likely.

Finally, would the lack of Participant Accident insurace prevent people from racing?


By the way, I'm still waiting for someone who is a consistent participant of AOF (or NBRA) to explain what a driver gets, in benefits, if he is injured at a race.


D.

[CSH12M]

Glad to see you jump in ED.... how about a few more potential BOD members.

Take a sec. and review this whole thread from the beggining.

Here is a question.....

Lets say APBA takes the amouts paid out in the last few years and comes up with an average paid out per year. Could APBA self insure for the $20,000 (or whatever the decieded amount)? APBA would collect additional monies (through increased membership fees) from members to build up the fund to be paid out. Then the question is who has to pay the money? Do we all pay an additional $50-100 dollars per year, to cover the claims, or do APBA members who want the additional coverage pay an additional fee to build up the fund?

To me the latter makes the most sense, if this is even feasable.

Or drop it altogether and negotiate a supplimental carrier (maybe we could get a better rate based on volume) for medical and put it on the membership forms to choose wether you want it. This way even though APBA drops medical, every year, you would have to pass up the supplimental box, therby saying "I will take on the risk myself to save the money!" My bet is most people will take the risk rather than spend the money. However, if APBA wants to save the money and lower race cost people will be upset about it. This is just MY gut feeling on this.

Thanks,
Dean
12M

[Hawk Race Consultant]

Gentlemen, Ladies, Racers, Promotors:


The name of my Company is: Hawk Race Consultants, Ltd. and I'm located at: 111 Great Neck Rd., Great Neck, New York 11021
516-466-9760 Office 516-466-9663 Cell: 516-449-1134

I specialize and exclusively write the following risks:
Events: Regatta Liability & Excess Med./AD&D
rated & charged per event only
Race Team: Storage Transit/Owners Sponsors/Umbrella, Auto
Poker Run Regatta Liability
Directors & Officers Liability for Sanctioning Bodies

plus all other Property & Casualty policies related to the above...


I'm not into the political scene, as it takes up to much time and is quite damaging for everyone, and ultimately will destroy certain catergories of boat racing.

Insurance has and always will be a strong issue, however should not be used as factor to join & or participate with any one group.

Hawk Race Consultants is just another player, just like ASIS, however I exclusively use K & K to underwrite a large portion of my business. I have agreement with K & K and is working out very well...

Unfortunately, I was never given the opportunity to quote the 12-1-03 renewal for the 170 events APBA wrote last year. Ed Hearn knows about that....and now I understand the concern Ed Hearn had when I was contacted 6 days prior to the decision on the renewal.

I presently will be offering renewal quotes for the circuits I have.

I can be reached at the #'s listed if you would like questions answered and ideas that I have which would give you better tools for decisions...

Each catergory of racing will have different agendas.....AOF, Unlimited Lights, NBA, Offshore, OSS, SBI, etc. all carry policies suited for operations & budgets...

Don't look for easy solution with this difficult insurance market....


ASIS & K & K are the leaders with Water Related Racing Events in the US....

Good luck to all......

[Howie Nichols]

I recently spoke with one of the supplemental insurance carriers provided to the employees in our county and we spoke in length about different scenarios regarding racing. Their policy as well as most supplemental policies have disclaimers in them excluding any type of "racing" be it water or land. After speaking with this agent it basically boiled down to anytime I was in preparation for or during an event and an accident occured it would NOT be covered.
In my opinion I would like to see the $20,000 stay in place as is, I have great insurance through my employer however the extra APBA insurance can be helpful so that I or my spouse do not have to take dime 1 out of our pockets to pay for any services that we needed. To me that is a great feeling to have, that in my time of need be it a small or large accident, paying the hospital, doctor, and prescriptions is the last thing I have to worry about and I can spend my time on healing.
Another thought is it seems we have a lot of fellow racers that own and operate their own small business. Do they have insurance? Let alone a major carrier? We need to think about the whole picture here and all members.
This is my opinion, but as a potential elected officer I will value any input and pass along those wishes of the general members as it is their voice that needs to be heard regardless of my personal thoughts.

[mercguy]

Originally posted by Howie Nichols
I recently spoke with one of the supplemental insurance carriers provided to the employees in our county and we spoke in length about different scenarios regarding racing. Their policy as well as most supplemental policies have disclaimers in them excluding any type of "racing" be it water or land. After speaking with this agent it basically boiled down to anytime I was in preparation for or during an event and an accident occured it would NOT be covered.
In my opinion I would like to see the $20,000 stay in place as is, I have great insurance through my employer however the extra APBA insurance can be helpful so that I or my spouse do not have to take dime 1 out of our pockets to pay for any services that we needed. To me that is a great feeling to have, that in my time of need be it a small or large accident, paying the hospital, doctor, and prescriptions is the last thing I have to worry about and I can spend my time on healing.
Another thought is it seems we have a lot of fellow racers that own and operate their own small business. Do they have insurance? Let alone a major carrier? We need to think about the whole picture here and all members.
This is my opinion, but as a potential elected officer I will value any input and pass along those wishes of the general members as it is their voice that needs to be heard regardless of my personal thoughts.


Howie, that is what I discovered also. I have a supplemental issurance policy with the Nation's largest insurance carrier, AFLAC, and it clearly states "boat racing" accidents ARE NOT covered.....PERIOD!

What I am curious about, is some of the other member's here insurance carriers and policies. Are boat racing accidents covered in there's??? I would suffice to say, that not many will say yes, so the APBA stuff is a MUST! By no means am I a smart guy, not attorney or such, so could quite possibly be wrong!